Are we all wishing the best for George Harrison?
Just a quick rewrite of the "Questions and Speculations" section due to this new data coming in.
Yeah yeah, I ate a bit of crow.
Added a brief section from the definitive book on Hazens regiment
Allan S. Everest
anyone got a copy?
catchy title though
and a good itinerary of the activities of the Regiment during the war
Another BIG thanks to Jean Guy.
I was always hoping that this website would attract someone like him.
He has found another child for Charles Hamelin/Amlaw and Agathe Bureau.
According to him the "exemption" on the marriage of Charles and Agathe was probably nothing more than a "waiver" on the third reading of the Banns of Marriage. In this case they were only read twice. Apparantly a fee could be paid for this "waiver"
As to the dates of the baptism of Marie Angelique (Aug. 7, 1788) a Thursday, and the marriage of Charles and Agathe (Aug. 11, 1788) a Monday, The reason for the delay in the marriage must have been to wait for the Sunday reading of the banns. They probably couldn't afford a second "exemption". Why did they not wait until Monday to baptize Marie Angelique?
It turns out that there was a Jean Baptiste Hamelin as a witness in 1780 and 1782 in La'assomption. At this time Charles was away in the war. This would seem likely to be the man who later appears in Clinton Co. living near Charles. At least in proves that there was another man of that name from the La'Assomption Hamelins. Jean Guy also states that he has been unable to find a marriage for only 2 of the children of Jacques Hamelin and Marie Barbe Sulliere, the two boys Jean Baptiste Charles and Jean Baptiste. That is ALMOST too strange a coincedence. I guess I'll soon have to give up my objections to assuming that Charles Amlaw of Clinton Co. was actually Jean Baptiste Charles Hamelin, the son of Jacques Hamelin and Marie Barbe Sulliere. It would certainly simplify things if it were so. However I still insist that there remains a possibility that Marie FRANCOISE Sulliere WAS married for a short time to a brother of Jacques named (called) Jean Baptiste. The dates of Marie Francoise's known marriages allow the possibility.
Jean Guy also states
"No, there is nothing common to call the oldest son Baptist. This is the invention of Jean-Baptiste-Charles because probably he does not know how he recorded himself in the Laurent Olivier company"
So it would seem that old Charlie was quite capable of elaborating on the truth. Makes it a bit more plausible that he would have given the wrong names on his marriage if he felt it would smooth things over a little.
"The first priest around July 1790 was Pierre Huet de la Valinière and a chapel was built at Frenchs Bay now called Trembleys Bay. The church was burn in 1792 and may be the record also burn. This can explain why we did not find any baptism between 1788 and 1792.
Abbe Joseph Signay was in the region around 1806. This can explain why we found baptism between 1794 and 1801 at Chambly and Pointe-Oliviers.
They thing the records were destroy with the fire in 1843"
I believe that we can be fairly certain that there was at least one son born before Joseph (1792) .
There was a Baptiste Amlaw/Hamelin kicking around back then, he seems to have been Charles and Agathe's oldest son.
There is a son listed in the 1790 Census.
Can anyone locate a complete list of the members of Moses Hazen's Regiment?
Well, thanks to Jean Guy for the following (BIG THANKS!)
Added a photocopy (with translation) of the marriage record of Jean Baptiste (Charles) Hamelin and Agathe Bureau taken from the Parish register of Chambly. It gives us a couple of new pieces of information.
you will notice the marriage required approbation of a higher level
Was there some sort of a "problem"???
There are 4 persons named as witness's who are described as friends of the couple.
I don't recognize the names right off as being Clinton Co residents but I think I'll post a couple of queries to the boards and see if anything comes up on them.
Well, more changes.
OK, it seems like we've had a little transcription error here.
The birth of Joseph Hamelin/Amlaw to Charles Hamelin/Amlaw and Agathe Bureau seems not to have occured in 1783 as stated previously. Thanks to Jean-Guy (and he is quite a guy!) for pointing this out and for all his other input here.
Rather it was in 1792.
He was Baptized at the same time as his sister Genevieve, May 15, 1797, at Chambly.
He was 5 years old at the time and was not said to be illegitamate.
It had been previously stated that he was baptized in 1788, at the same time as his sister Angelique and that he was 5 years old at that time. This would have implied that Agathe Bureau was almost certainly too young to have been his mother (in 1783) and this led to the suspicion that Charles had been married prior to Agathe. It now seems that the matter is simplified
It still, however leaves the same question of why there is a five year delay in getting the boy baptized. There was a daughter (Judith) baptized in 1794, so why wouldn't they have brought along little Joseph to be baptized then? Was he sickly or was he living elsewhere?
As suggested I finally did pay for my own P.D.R.H. subscription and looked for myself.
I see no other Hamelin/Amelin baptism in Chambly in 1788 except M. Angelique, Aug. 7, 1787.
There's $20 out of a poor man's pocket for dead relatives! aaargh!!!
(can you tell that I'm Scottish on my mother's side? In my family you're lucky if we shell out for a burial!)
Charles (Jean Baptiste) and Agathe Bureau were then married on Aug. 11, 1788 at Chambly, 4 days after M. Angelique was baptised. Odd to have done it in that order. Also interesting to note that they seem to have spent some days in Chambly.
According to the extract that was included in Agathe's pension application there was a (1) child legitimated by this marriage (presumably Angelique).
That a 5 year old Joseph was baptized in 1797 at the same time as an infant sister (a fact!) could not have happened exactly the same way back in 1788 as well.
The error seems to have been a simple switch of the birth events.
There are also 4 other children listed for this couple.
See the new Family Group Sheet for them.
I have made up Group Sheets for them instead of the "theoretical descent tree" that I was using. I think it will be easier to list all the various references I have this way. I have discovered that alot of them weren't really very well cross referenced. Please bear in mind that with the data at hand about these people, the connections between them remain at least partially guesswork.
There have also been enough new developments in this area to make it neccesary to pretty much re-write the "Questions and Speculations" section dealing with the parentage of Charles Amlaw/Hamelin of Clinton Co. ( )
That's why I called this a "Genealogical RESEARCH Forum"!!!
It helps me to sort of "cover my a**" on these kind of "rewrites"!
Ya like the cheesy little flags on the welcome page?
Well I got bored in the absense of any new data.
Added a link to Randy Sisson's webpage. (here)
I strongly recommend a visit there.
He is focused on the Emlaw variation of "the name"
most commonly found in the midwest but anyone interested in the Hamelin/Amelin/Amlaw (etc etc etc) history should certainly check this out. Randy has contributed alot to my efforts here, more than I have to his I'm afraid.
I was just about to trash alot of my old paperwork and I thought to give it one last check first, and amazingly I did find this one small item that I had missed. It's a letter sent to me all those years ago by Jim Amlaw of West Islip NY. he sent a copy of a letter he recieved from the Whitehall NY. Historical Society, written in hand, none too neatly.
Jim Amlaw is the son of James Emerson Amlaw, son of Herbert Amlaw
Herbert Amlaw is a brakeman for the railroad
You'll find Herbert on the wanted list here.
It's worth noting that this info has Herbert born in 1868 (1870 in the second record) in Rouse's Point NY
So despite my doughts he does seem to belong to the Clinton Co. Amlaw/Hamelins somehow.
Where does Herbert belong?
1868-1870 in Rouses Point,
That's why I hate to throw anything away!
Just a quick addition on the Abe Hamelin saga
Recieved word on his ancestry from my source
He appears to be Abraham Hamelin b. 1826 Chateaugay, Quebec, son of Abraham Hamelin and Clarisa Crete. Abraham Sr., in turn, was the son of Jean-Baptiste Hamelin and Marie-Madeleine Trotier; and Jean-Baptiste was the son of Alexis Hamelin and Marie-Joseph Belisle; and Alexis was the son of the original Francois
Oh, those Grondines Hamelins
always were an ornery bunch!
I'll have to be more polite to Joe I guess, geez!
Got a great photo af the children of Antoine Amlaw and Julie Alain from Don Amlaw
Taken circa 1930, location unknown
apparantly at somebodys funeral
the best kind of photo too, one of those "let's get all of us in this picture" kind.
couple of mild mannered looking types and a couple of pretty tough lookin' types I'd say
It only takes me a couple of minutes to add things like this to the website so anyone who has any old photos please do send them to me. You can get them scanned real cheap at any copy shop and it's a great way to preserve them as well.
Old documents can also be scanned.
Just attach them to an email and send them in
I have also included the official pardon of one Abraham Hamelin of Quebec, he later seems to have moved through NY State and into the Minnesota area where his descendants still live, they seem to spell the name Emlaw these days. The source of this document feels that Abe is one of the Grondines Hamelins and not the La'Assomption Hamelins but didn't say why.
The pardon contains the name of his parish so I await word on this matter from the usual authorities.
But it makes interesting reading and it's been a slow month so......
I also want to throw out a little reminder.
If anyone is going to buy a subscription to the PRDH. Please send along your results, even if they don't seem useful to you in your research. They might be to someone else. There are some interesting looking references to Hamelins and Amelins in the La'assomption area that almost make me want to spend the money. But I think I'm doing my bit here and I am still refusing to spend money on dead relatives, I'm going to leave it to others to find the raw data. I'll search if it's free.
But I'd love to see those entries for Agathe Amelin in the La'assomption records, that's the dark ages for my own research.
I guess I should break down and do it myself, even though I'm the poor relation around here!!!
If your interested you can find the link to the PRDH on the LINKS PAGE HERE.
It's really not very expensive and "we" NEED more of this sort of data here.
That's all the nagging I'll do (for now)
Oh yeah, one more thing!
Hey there, Bill Smith, husband of Jaqueline.
Never heard anything more from ya'!!!???
If I'm right then believe it or not Jaqueline is probably the closest living relative I have on the Amlaw side.
I'd be really interested in whatever you may have.
Do any of your inlaws have old photos??
Your "Amlaw" "inlaws", that is.
Pretty lame, I know.
And that's all for this month
We seem to have ground to a halt here, c'mon folks!!!
Well, thank those who emailed me about are recent "earth shaking" here. It got me out of bed, that's for sure.
Pretty scary, but not as scary as realizing that you people know WHERE I LIVE!! (kidding)
Have incorporated all the info on the family of Antoine Amlaw that was sent to me by Don amlaw.
This required removing a few people from the "wanted list"
Lots of additions to the family group sheets for them
Adding a bunch to the name index
re-linking alot of stuff
As always, if anyone spots any errors, let me know.
We still don't know if Antoine was related to either of the other two earlier Amlaw families in Clinton Co, but we have a name for his father, it was a Joseph Hamelin, of course that is the most common name in Quebec so it's still an open question.
Antoine would have been born sometime in the mid-1840's almost certainly in Quebec.
Joe Hamelin has posted his gedcom file at rootsweb, I have added the link to it on the links page
Also added these 2 references to a couple of short stories my dad discovered many years back written by a Mary Amlaw. They were written in the early 80's. I expect that she was an Amlaw by marriage.
Does anybody know who she is??
Also found another one for the wanted list.
Who was the Charles V. Amlaw that registered for the draft in 1917 in Washington State??
Said he was born 25 Apr 1887 in Shorts Mills Pennsylvania.
Added the only two references to any L'Assomption Hamelins to be found among the Notary records of Quebec.
My French is a little non-existant so I can't say what they mean. I took a guess. I'll send them off to that nice translater lady in Quebec and hope she'll tell me what it says. They both refer to Jacques Hamelin and seem to say that he was some sort of "navigator" so I guess that fits with him being an occasional voyageur. we know that his son Jacques ended up way out in the Red River area of Manitoba.
If you Grondines folks want to send me a copy of all those entries on yours I'll be glad to post them here.
Maybe with some explanation attached.
Has anyone ever translated the marriage extract of Charles and Agathe Amlaw from Chambly that was included in Charles' revolutionary war service folder at the national archives? It's probably not too informative anyway, just trying to be complete.
Feb 24, 2001
Added some City directory listing for Manchester NH, 1890-1893 (see here)
This required a couple of additions to the wanted list as well
Thanks to Randy Sisson yet again!
Also tried to correct (yet again) the 2 Louis problem. With the help of Joe Hamelin I do believe we finally got it. see here
Feb. 21, 2001
Not much new, worked mostly on the "Wanted list" so I'd appreciate it if anyone could help identify any of these people. I think I've finally rounded up for all the strays there.
I've added a few links on the links page, nothing you haven't seen I'm sure, but all websites seem to have a links page so....
Made a few corrections on the Joseph Hamelin family group sheet as per Joe Hamelin's instructions.
(you "Hamelins" are sooo picky about your spelling!)
Corrected some confusing wording on the previous update about the "2 Louis" problem. (see here)
Will probably have some new info about the Antoine Amlaw family soon (ahem, ahem), thanks to Don Amlaw.
SORRY, I SAID IT WAS A "FISET" MENTIONED IN THE LATEST BIRTH RECORD, THE ONE IN WHICH "JULIENNE PATENAUDE" WAS A WITNESS, I MEANT TO SAY THAT IT WAS A "LEFORT", ANOTHER NAME I"D SEEN BEFORE.
I NEED MAPS< SEND ME MAPS!!!!!!!!!
Hey! I got maps!. Added the complete set of 1869 "Atlas" maps of Clinton Co. They only show 3 Amlaws, Joseph (m.Sophia) and Charles (m.Adaline), both on the Rouse's point maps, nearly next door to each other and on the Lakeshore. And Dolphin Amlaw, all by himself near the top left of the Chazy map, lot #8. I don't know where the others where in 1869 (yet) but maybe WE can work some of that out by comparing their neighbors in the 1860-70-80 Census's.
First see this deed.
Then see this article
Then notice that Lot # 12 in West Chazy has J. Guyette on it, and IS located "between rivers".
Corrected Joe Hamelin's Email address./ .net instead of .com
Sorry Joe, When I got your Email saying you "always wondered what it would be like to be a link" I was confused, I just assumed that you'd been drinking or something.
Thanks to Joe Hamelin for coming up with the parentage of Louis Amlaw's wife Julia. Now we know that she was Julie Patenaude. I've gone digging around on the internet and found that the Patenaude's are a very well researched family. All I had to do was click the mouse button a few times and I was back to the 1400's! Good news for those of us that descend from Louis and Julie. (both of us!) This has required a few changes to the family group sheet for Louis and Julie. I had theorized that Louis had a first wife before Julie, based on her age in the census. But given the new more exact and reliable dates, and the fact that the identity of the "other" Louis has been established,(the one that married Sophie Perrote) his father (also named Alexis, the brother of Joseph Hamelin, Joseph being the father of the Alexis Hamelin who settled in Clinton Co.) therefore, this Louis (son of Alexis)was the 1st cousin of Alexis Hamelin (son of Joseph) of Clinton Co..
Rene Hamelin had a son named Alexis and one named Joseph.
Alexis had a son named Louis.
Joseph had a son named Alexis.
Louis is the man that married Sophie Perrotte
Alexis is the man who settled in Clinton Co. (Alexander C.)
Got it right now? (I hope)
So, back to the Louis that married Julie Patenaude - I guess Julie was the mother of all the kids. It means she was like 14-15 when they married, but I guess since they were French backwoods farmers.........
Speaking of the Patenaudes, I found this in the Clinton Co. Church Recs. Could be Julie Patenaude, and there's those Fisets again, wonder what the connection is there.......
I know it's not directly connected to the Amlaws but Julie married one and there may be some connection with the Fisets.
NOT FISET, I MEANT LEFORT.
Thanks to Michelle Ricard for identifying Julia Amlaw (wife of Robert Forkey) as the daughter of Alexis and for correcting the dates of her birth and death, and also for identifying the location of the grave of the "other" Julia Amlaw (wife of Micheal Wool), the relevant corrections have been made.
Why does there seem to be a reference to Charles Amlaw in his revolutionary muster rolls records as a Sergeant? I thought I'd checked that file completely. I came across this in the Ancestry.com database. His pension file lists him as a Private, as does everything else I've yet seen. If he ever was a Sergeant he must have been demoted before the war was over. Next time I hit the Archives I'll check again.
I added a "Spouse Index"
OK, Major rethink required. It seems virtually certain that Agathe Bureau was NOT the mother of Joseph Hamelin (the one that drowned). .
Why is it that whenever I get any new information it always seems to ask 2 questions for every one that it answers? I'll work it out yet.
Also some corrections on the most wanted list, I had overlooked a couple of things, so if you have read that in the last week or so, maybe you should see it again. SORRY. It's sooo complicated!!!
Finally managed to wade through all those Parish Register entries. I think I've cross referenced them to all the relevant places. They aren't listed in any real order so, if you're interested, try starting in the relevant family group pages. But if your like me you may want to just peruse the list. If anyone can see any connections that I haven't seen, please Email me. You'll see that some of the entries are pretty unrelated, I just scooped up anything I could find. Didn't find much (anything really) new. The Sophia Pelky that married Joseph Amlaw was a sister of the William Pelky that married Harriet Amlaw, Dolphin and Louis's sister. Means nothing (probably).
Also a possible connection between Joseph Amlaw (m. Sophia) and Charles Amlaw (m. Adaline). It may just be a coincedence. Jacob Fiset is godfather to a child of Joseph and Sophia, and also to a grandchild of Charles and Adaline. My current theory has Charles being an Uncle to Joseph, despite their being the same age.
( Charles was the brother of Baptiste, and Joseph (who drowned) was their half brother.)
Jacob Fiset was also a witness at the funeral of Ursele Asselin, who was the mother of Sophia Pelletier (m. Joseph Amlaw). I can't see what his relationship to Charles Amlaw is.
The "Hamelins" will take note of the change on the welcome page. I hope my objective is clear. I began keeping track of all the Hamelin / Amlaw families in Clinton Co. mostly because it became necessary in order to sort out who's who. A genealogical study of ALL the people named Hamelin in America would of course be overwhelming!! I admit though, that I have developed a sentimental attachment to those "other" Amlaws. It was good to see the photo of Joseph and Delphine that Joe Hamelin sent in. After all these years of running into him in the records (while looking for the "other" Joseph) it was cool to have a face for him finally. I hope you'll all understand my using the Amlaw spelling for everyone after the move from Quebec. You Hamelin's have an advantage in that you probably already recognize Amlaw as a variation. I can assure you, we Amlaws lost touch with our French roots long ago I fear, and the poor souls might never find us if we call this "The Hamelin Family". I know I never would have thought to look under "Hamelin", (crazy French spelling!)
And while I'm ranting on, why is it that whenever I find a Hamelin /Amlaw, 7 times out of 10 it's one of those Alexander "C". Amlaw people! You didn't outnumber us, so what's the story ?(JOE). I'm starting to think your people snuck into the churchs and erased all the entries for mine! Some sort of conspiracy, that's what it was. Trying to strike us off the records!
And what the hell does the "C" stand for anyway? (I've always liked the way it sounds)
And who was Felix Hamelin ? He was a witness at Moses Amlaw's funeral in 1894, then he married the daughter of one of Moses' sisters in 1906.
And can anyone tell me who Antoine Amlaw was? his son Joseph is the other "other" Joseph that one keeps running across. (you know, Joseph and Delia). Why should they escape ? Someone must belong to them.
Added the SSI Death Index entries for "Amlaw" and made all the connections I could find. A whole lot of the names seem to be widows of Amlaws.Hmmmm....
Added a "Wanted List". Any time you see the icon, it means I have been unable to connect that person to a particular family group. If I have any ideas, the words "see notes" will be under the icon. Click to go the page where I put these ideas, conjectures and links. If you can help remove one of these people from the list please Email me. This will need more work as I keep coming across these little mysteries, we got more of them than we got facts!
Added a Civil Registration entry in Vermont.
Added 2 Civil Registration entries in Connecticut
Added 4 Civil Registration entries for Maine
Added 3 Civil Registration entries for California
Added an obituary for a Frederick Amlaw from Palm Beach FL.
Grave for Willard H. Amlaw (son of Willard, son of Joseph)
Thanks again to the Amazing Randy for the great stuff he sends!!!
The usual tinkering with appearance. Corrections in speling, etc. etc.
(Finaly larned ta spel JACQUES !)
Added a fantastic written history and a wealth of data sent in by
Joseph Hamelin, on the family of Alexander C. Hamelin (Amlaw)
Too bad there isn't someone like this for the other
two Amlaw families in Clinton Co. (Hey, gimme a break, I'm tryin' here!)
for the generations that lived in Clinton Co. I'm sure Joseph Hamelin
would be happy to supply the names of all the people back in Quebec. He has kindly allowed me to post his Email address here.
Joe has also supplied a couple of current photos taken from his trip to Clinton of the roaring metropolis that is Rouse's Point
Added one small item about Joseph Amlaw(the one that drowned)
I would have shot at him, looks like a Redcoat!
Found a possible gravesite for Alfred Amlaw (civil war)
I have trouble with maps, need NH, NJ, VT, MA
Current and historical
I know (Randy) they probably are somebody's copyright, so don't anyone tell the Map Police, I just thought it would be a helpful reference.
There are links to it on each page dealing with a NY location.
OK, I got rid of the cheesy cover page pics, can anyone send something?
Some "period" shots for the different decades in the 1800's?
I don't know.
The usual spelling and grammer corrections. (public school)
Special thanks to Randy for keeping me in line, I need a good editor!
Added a Name Index for the site
Added some info from Dolphin Amlaw's Family Bible
and some data on the descendants of Isaac Amlaw
Courtesy of Paula Deml. (Thank you Paula!)
Added the Civil Registration Births found in the New Hampshire